Into the 1228, it seems that that it same Clemence and her husband Nicholas was chose for infant custody out of Joanna and you will Llywelyn's child Susanna (aged in the fourteen?). appears to be to the youngster becoming brought up in a secure and you will safer ecosystem toward opportunity for a far greater training. happening were are kept out of their particular. The fresh custodial grant is by Queen Henry III, half-brother to Joanna and you will 50 % of-uncle so you can Susanna, yet the decree named Susanna, Henry's ‘niece' and you may Joanna, Henry's ‘sister'.'

A concern today presents in itself. If Joanna is the fresh new child of Clemence le Boteler, away from, seem to an enthusiastic English home, how do we describe exactly what Joanna was doing from inside the France when Queen John delivered to own their unique in 1203? One to you'll be able to response is you to Clemence's dad, Philip le Boteler is actually French, in lieu of English. It absolutely was quite common at that time for all those to hang features towards the both sides of Station. It ed his dilies than in English parents during this period.

Really the only book where I have came across a reference to Clemence Pinel – partner regarding Henry Pinel (except that Charles Cawley inside Wikipedia) is in Alison Weir's ‘England's Regal Parents: The entire Genealogy (London, 1989).' This guide try noted by you to definitely genealogist just like the ‘not as totally annotated.' personal trawl from genealogy forums discover scant reference with the Pinel family relations, and Clemence's partner Henry Pinel. Multiple entries recommend that Joanna are brand new child off Henry Pinel and his awesome spouse Clemence, however, zero offer, able to be appeared, are given. I am ergo inclined to write off it woman of subsequent research. I'm able to end up being extremely incorrect.

Amount regarding Mortain, in the Normandy, knew out-of their own [and maybe

Clemence de Fougers try brand new aunt out of Richard de Hommet, Constable of Normandy, and you may Geoffrey de Fougeres. Their unique dad was William du Fougers. I've zero big date of beginning (or passing) of Clemence, but she was first married prior to 1200 (zero big date readily available) to help you Alan de- Dinan, and you will was preferred adequate to get married in October 1200, once the their next husband, Ranulph de Blundeville, Earl of Chester and Vicomte d'Avranches, recently separated (marriage annulled?) from Constance away from Brittany.

In 1189, aged seventeen, Ranulph had been married to Constance of Brittany the widow of Henry 11 ‘s son Geoffrey, and the mother of Arthur of Brittany with whom King John contested the succession. Henry did not trust the Countess and wanted her married to a magnate he could trust. The marriage gave Ranulph control of the earldom of Richmond and the duchy of Brittany, but it was not a success (see subject 6. below). The couple had no issue and they separated. It was rumoured you to definitely Earl Ranulph separated Constance in order to have had an affair having King John!

Of course, manage so it Clemence function as the mommy from Joanna, she would additionally be brand new grandma from Susanna, although there isn’t any reasoning to trust your more youthful Joanna understood, at this time, that there try a family group relationships, when the

Once the Clemence de Fougers is actually child and you can cousin out of Constables out-of Normandy, It is envision likely that John, *knew* their unique, just before their unique marriage in order to Ranulph]. A close link with John might describe what can look an extremely beneficial second marriage for Clemence in order to Ranulph.

Ranulph, six th Earl away from Chester yet not, try a powerful baron and it beggars religion, about for me, he will have recognized a wedding cute and sexy Salvador women to a woman exactly who got had a known affair and you will a following youngster of the John, Matter off Mortain certain a decade before. Such as for instance because of the rumours related a possible fling anywhere between John and you may his first partner Constance!